Top Gear

[martintyler]

New series starting on October 24th http://www.topgear.com/content/misc/TV/



Looks like a good line up for the first show..



# The Crap Porsche Challenge

# Ferrari 575M GTC v Aston Vanquish S

# Lamborghini Murcielago Roadster

# New Porsche 911

# BMW 1-Series

# New Ford Focus

# Supercharged Ariel Atom

[Jimmy]

:clap: Sounds good can't wait.

[juboy]

Be good to have it back on, Sunday nights aren't quite the same without it :(

[Geezer]

Be good to have it back on, Sunday nights aren't quite the same without it :(




Definatley, cant wait for the new series to start.

[polsnulspace]

<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText">juboy wrote on Thu, 14 October 2004 10:07</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">
Be good to have it back on, Sunday nights aren't quite the same without it :(




Definatley, cant wait for the new series to start.








images/smiley_icons/signs011.gif This is indeed good news :D~:-D~:grin:

[Bobbles]

fantastic news, can this have a bump on the 24th?

[juboy]

Bump as requested...



New series of Top Gear tonight, Sunday 24th October - BBC2 at 8pm

[Jimmy]

Bump as requested...



New series of Top Gear tonight, Sunday 24th October - BBC2 at 8pm




Damn you beat me to it :lol:

[martintyler]

Looks like a good line up for the first show..



# The Crap Porsche Challenge

# Ferrari 575M GTC v Aston Vanquish S

# Lamborghini Murcielago Roadster

# New Porsche 911

# BMW 1-Series

# New Ford Focus

# Supercharged Ariel Atom




Cant remember where i got that line up from, but it must be bits from the series rather than the first show which clearly didnt have all that in it! :)~:-)~:smile: Although it doesnt look like a 'highlights of the series' line up either - as that looked even better with the enzo next week, a zonda roadster at some point and some other stuff i cant remember which looked great!



Bit too much crap in tonights show, just get on with the cars guys!



btw, 5th gear has the 997 tomorrow, with Tiff driving, less bullhttp://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/images/smiley_icons/censored.gif that clarkson

[Jimmy]

Yea there was to much talk about rubbish and not enough about cars. still good though

[martintyler]

on again in half an hour, incase you are on here and had forgotten :)~:-)~:smile:

[Jimmy]

on again in half an hour, incase you are on here and had forgotten :)~:-)~:smile:




didn't forget waiting for it to start.

[polsnulspace]

Id forgot, yes!!!



But series link recording on sky+ stops me from being to concerned :D~:-D~:grin: ;)~;-)~:wink:

[polsnulspace]

The new Ford focus... ..very ugly!!



The pope in a Ferrari F1 car.. :thumbup: ..very funny!!

[Jimmy]

Good show tonight really enjoyed the comparing from the new and old.

[martintyler]

Good show tonight really enjoyed the comparing from the new and old.




Yep, good show, disappointed that with those 6 super cars there they didnt all do laps there and then. Since the current zonda time is by the old (slower) stig. I'd also prefer to hear stigs opinions on them instead of clarksons ever changing reasons for his preference.

[common]

Was behind an Enzo the other day on the M4 - very nice in the flesh :nod:

[Bobbles]

Was behind Enzo the other day on the M4 - very nice flesh :nod:




whatever floats your boat





I enjoyed this episode but I think it is madness picking the F40.

[Bob007]

on again in half an hour, incase you are on here and had forgotten :)~:-)~:smile:




Top Gear is also repeated (about time) on Mondays on BBC2 at 11pm. :thumbup:

[Bob007]

The new series starts this Sunday. :thumbup:



Set those recorders now, don't be one of those who will be posting on Monday with the words, &quot;Damn, missed it&quot;. :D~:-D~:grin:



.........and for those that do miss it, it's repeated on Tuesday 24th May @ 7pm BBC2. ;)~;-)~:wink:

[martintyler]

.........and for those that do miss it, it's repeated on Tuesday 24th May @ 7pm BBC2. ;)~;-)~:wink:




Cool, since sundays are out for me. I think the last series was repeated much later, 11pm or so, which i'd prefer.

[juboy]

Excellent, it'll be good to have it back :thumbup:

[Geezer]

:clap: One of the best shows on TV :thumbup:

[Jimmy]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[shodan]

Set those recorders now, don't be one of those who will be posting on Monday with the words, &quot;Damn, missed it&quot;. :D~:-D~:grin:








:roll: :( :(

[Dimmy]

As good as it ever was, although it would seem Clarkson's aged considerably since the last series :lol:

[martintyler]

the quick preview of the series at the start looked good. I think they can sometimes do too much of the silly stuff, but the football and the tank thing tonight were both cool i thought.



I dont really understand the merc CLS getting 1:26, that is a seriously quick time. Although clarkson tried to explain why the SL55 was way down at 1:33 (wet and stif took it easy as it was clarksons own car) - the SL55 wouldnt usually be up in the company of the other 1:26 cars on other test tracks i have seen times for. So they must have done something special with the CLS's handling.

[Jimmy]

the quick preview of the series at the start looked good. I think they can sometimes do too much of the silly stuff, but the football and the tank thing tonight were both cool i thought.






I really enjoyed those too.



I can't wait to see the german bird again :nod:

[Geezer]

<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText">martintyler wrote on Sun, 22 May 2005 22:26</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">
the quick preview of the series at the start looked good. I think they can sometimes do too much of the silly stuff, but the football and the tank thing tonight were both cool i thought.






I really enjoyed those too.



I can't wait to see the german bird again :nod:




I was wondering who you meant then, the one driving the van right?



Good first episode

:thumbup:

[Jimmy]

I was wondering who you meant then, the one driving the van right?






:nod:

[bells0]

Drove a CLS recently at a Merc track day at Croft.



Only drove the standard 5 litre version and that was pretty quick [the brakes were awesome] so i can imagine that the tuned AMG version would be damn swift! They had AMG SL55's and CLS's at the track day but didnt want to queue, happy to tear round in the standard versions! w)

[martintyler]

Have you driven SL's before? Did the CLS seem that special at handling?

[bells0]

Drove a 350 Sl the same day, it handled better through the corners, but not by much.



The instuctors really drum into you about getting the smoothest line through the corners, so it was harder to notice until a sharp fast corner [last 2 bends]. The CLS was definately a bit more 'wallowy', but not as much as u'd think as it is a large motor.



Think the AMG SL55 would kick a CLS AMG's arse though.

[martintyler]

Think the AMG SL55 would kick a CLS AMG's arse though.




That's what I would assume, but that top gear CLS laptime is very good, up there with cars that beat an SL55 by miles on other tracks. :?~:-?~:???:

[bells0]

Not sure what specs the AMG CLS has to be honest [compared to an SL], aint much of Merc fan. Got on the track day cos my Dad has an SLK on order.



Was awesome just standing on the long straight listenin to any of the AMG version going past, a real thunderous racket :bow:

[Bobbles]

Well it is back.



I thought the last 2 have been superb. I thought the 3 car tests were very amusing.



I thought they were joking about it not been on next week because of women's football, but no bbc have taken it off for women's football.



WTF!??? has someone at the beeb been smoking a crack pipe?



Check out this link



http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;category (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;category=18301&amp;item=4552769 364&amp;rd=1) =18301&amp;item=4552769364&amp;rd=1

[Geezer]

£16000 :o~:-o~:eek:



I would love a Charger.

[martintyler]

Despite the thread title this is now the old top gear thread.. latest one is still on page 1 of this forum :)~:-)~:smile:

[Geezer]

Despite the thread title this is now the old top gear thread.. latest one is still on page 1 of this forum :)~:-)~:smile:










:lol: so it is, i blame bobbles he posted first :P~:-P~:razz:

[Bobbles]

I blame Geezer



I blame my eyesight as I didn't see it and went through 7 odd pages trying to find a TG thread.

[martintyler]

Lets continue here then..



Another good episode.



Need more fast cars though - but i think they are coming from what we saw of the series highlights bit at the start of the first episode.

[Jimmy]

I didn't think it was that good this week :(

[martintyler]

not as good as the first week no

[Bomb_Squad]

I know nishmans about cars, but i like Top Gear - i think the 3 of 'em are a good mix.





Adz

[Bobbles]

I prefered it to the first, I found it more amusing and Jack was a better guest.



I still can not believe it has been taken off for monkey tennis

[Heuer]

Not sure what specs the AMG CLS has to be honest [compared to an SL], aint much of Merc fan. Got on the track day cos my Dad has an SLK on order.



Was awesome just standing on the long straight listenin to any of the AMG version going past, a real thunderous racket :bow:




I have just returned from the Alpina factory and they had an SL55 on their rolling road. Seems that it needs 123bhp to run the supercharger alone! Kinda reduces what you have spare to make the car go. They did this to show their new Nautilus supercharger only needs 20bhp to do the same job. The B5 on test was producing 530bhp/700NM torque which also compares to 501bhp/325NM of the new M5. Needless to say, and having driven the B5, this car is anti-social and pointlessly over powered. I ordered one immediately. Anyone want to buy a B10 V8?

[chaosjdp]

Only supercharged car I've had was a G60 Corrado a few years back. That was still fun with less than 200 bhp so I can only imagine what the Alpina is like :D~:-D~:grin: .



What's the lead time on the B5 as Fifth Gear were saying it's a two year wait for the M5 ?

[Heuer]

First cars are due November - I have ordered another Touring (estate) - one of twelve. Saloons are delivered in September. No waiting list as far as I know. Motorings best kept secret. I have had Ferrari 360's pull over to see the badge on the rear of my B10. Best car I have ever owned (and I have a 911 in the garage).

[Uncle Eric]

Unusual tyres on that B10 of yours David.

It looked like they were painted on when I had a look. The words low profile doesn't quite do them justice :D~:-D~:grin:

[juboy]

I saw a ton of those Honda Element vehicles in San Francisco (the one reviewed by James May in the opening show and that isn't likely to be sold in the UK) and they look even better in real life. Probably not what you'd choose for a first car but as a second they'd be excellent.



I think the real reason Honda won't sell them here is because it'd kill sales of the lower end Civics and CRVs completely - and they're Honda's best selling UK cars and more expensive than the Element.

[Bobbles]

First cars are due November - I have ordered another Touring (estate) - one of twelve. Saloons are delivered in September. No waiting list as far as I know. Motorings best kept secret. I have had Ferrari 360's pull over to see the badge on the rear of my B10. Best car I have ever owned (and I have a 911 in the garage).




you're not wrong about them being kept secret; i'd never heard of them :roll:



A new B5 on order and a 911 in the garage; what are you a professional footballer or something? or do you wear very big and weird hats and shag models?

[Jimmy]

<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText">Heuer wrote on Tue, 07 June 2005 21:43</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">
First cars are due November - I have ordered another Touring (estate) - one of twelve. Saloons are delivered in September. No waiting list as far as I know. Motorings best kept secret. I have had Ferrari 360's pull over to see the badge on the rear of my B10. Best car I have ever owned (and I have a 911 in the garage).




you're not wrong about them being kept secret; i'd never heard of them :roll:



A new B5 on order and a 911 in the garage; what are you a professional footballer or something? or do you wear very big and weird hats and shag models?




:lol: :lol:.





I went on a track day a couple of weeks ago and got to drive some of my fantasy cars. These were a Ferrari 355, Ferrari 360 and a Porsche 911. I have to admit that before I went I always loved the Ferrari brand and never really felt the same about the Porsche cars. After driving each of these cars, I have now done a 180 and love the 911 images/smiley_icons/headoverheels.gif. I am now not overly keen on Ferrari's :o~:-o~:eek:. I think this is due to the fact that they are just so big and powerful they overwhelmed me, but I felt so comfortable in the 911. There was also a Lambo Gallardo there. When it was parked next to the Ferrari 360 it wiped the floor with it in the aesthetic department. It also sounded lots better when going round the track. I now just need to win the lotto to get the car off my dreams a 911 :lol:.



After a search for an Alpina website I couldn't find any for the U.K Only a Japanese website. What is the retail on a B5. Not that I need to ask as I guess it's going to be absolutely astronomical :roll:.



So Heuer not only have you got amazing home cinema systems but also a garage of stunning cars. :bow:.

[Heuer]

You could start here: http://www.alpina-automobile.de/co_uk/. The car side appears to be a hobby for the family as they seem to make more money selling wine! The Alpina Z4 Roadster is 0.1 of a second faster around Nurburgring than the new M5 so don't believe the published power outputs. Alpina have to understate these to keep BMW happy - they had to trash all the B5 brochures as they quoted 501BHP and BMW did'nt like the fact is was more than their M5. I've seen the engine running on their dyno and Andy Bovenseipen took me around the track and admitted as much.



Sold in the UK by Sytner and the B5 saloon costs £63k, Touring £3k more. Start adding special interiors etc and the cost can go up quite dramatically but the standard car is very well spec'd.



My 1963 E-Type roadster, fully restored and tweaked (288BHP, 350lb/ft torque), is faster than both the 911 and B10 strangely. A lot more fun as well but I think the B5 will get the better of it.

[shodan]

That E type sounds like a little slice of heaven! My father and I love them and have always planned to get one, one day! :bow:

[martintyler]

Which 911 do you have? I guess the E-type is pretty light, so with 288bhp it should be pretty quick - what is the handling like though?

[shodan]

And what about the brakes? they were known as the Flying Coffin after all! (Goes like a bat out of hell, stops like a ball rolling down a hill!)

[Heuer]

The E-Type goes, handles and stops like a dream - we did 3,500 miles through Europe last year including 6 days on the Rallye des Alpes. Suspension is all solid mounted and lowered, Koni shock absorbers, wider wire wheels/modern rubber, AP Racing discs and a Lightweight E-Type racing exhaust (107db but glorious sound). Braking improved by using new old stock Mintex asbestos pads which are probably illegal in our ever heath and safety conscious society but they work great.



The 911 is a a 933 Carrera2. Had 911's for 20 years and this is the last of the aircooled off the production line - had a 996 and got rid of it and went back to the 993, far better car.



http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/q-max/E-Type1.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/q-max/E-TypeGeneva.jpg (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/q-max/E-TypeGeneva.jpg)



Second picture is taken in the Geneva park where the E-Type was first launched and that is the original launch car.

[martintyler]

Great looking car :thumbup:

[Uncle Eric]

Great looking car :thumbup:


It's a lovely car and I can confirm it looks like it's just left the showroom. Absolute mint condition. I think I left some drool marks on it last time I was at Davids :(

[Bobbles]

great show this week I thought.



I really liked the look of the DB9 convertable, German sports car and the Maz.



I thought they were a bit harsh on the tvr mind you. The is it easy to use test was pathetic; you only need to find out once FFS.

[martintyler]

more details please :)~:-)~:smile: what was on the show? i'll try and catch it tomorrow

[juboy]

Christopher Ecclestone was in a specially brought in automatic Liana as he only has an automatic license :lol:



Clarkson had some fun with an old Rolls Royce and they put a new TVR up against a Weissman (sp?) sports car. They also showed Clarkson's new GT in the studio and James May did a nice piece on an old Maserati.



Good show but not the best of the current series.



I noticed from the official figures that Top Gear is now the most watched show on BBC2 :thumbup:

[Squirrelecto]

Christopher Ecclestone was in a specially brought in automatic Liana as he only has an automatic license :lol:




That's all you need to drive a tardis mate :lol:

[Geezer]

more details please :)~:-)~:smile: what was on the show? i'll try and catch it tomorrow




Clarkson fixing up a old Rolls and <div class="dashed" style="padding: 3px;" align="center" width="100%">Reveal Spoiler (javascript://)<div align="left" id="1164266092822175082" style="visibility: hidden;">driving it into a pool.</div></div>

German sports car (i liked) with M3 engine compared to TVR Tuscan 2

Dr who doing star in a reasonably priced car.

Clarkson's Ford GT arriving

Cant remember much else, not the best of programmes imo

[juboy]

That's all you need to drive a tardis mate :lol:






I'd have thought prowess with a gear stick would be useful what with Billie being in there with you.

[Geezer]

<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText">martintyler wrote on Mon, 13 June 2005 21:09</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">
more details please :)~:-)~:smile: what was on the show? i'll try and catch it tomorrow




Clarkson fixing up a old Rolls and <div class="dashed" style="padding: 3px;" align="center" width="100%">Reveal Spoiler (javascript://)<div align="left" id="876877378105114454" style="visibility: hidden;">driving it into a pool.</div></div>

German sports car (i liked) with M3 engine compared to TVR Tuscan 2

Dr who doing star in a reasonably priced car.

Clarkson's Ford GT arriving

Cant remember much else, not the best of programmes imo






Ive been spoilerised :D~:-D~:grin: im looking at you SG, fair point didnt think :thumbup:

[Squirrelecto]

Ive been spoilerised :D~:-D~:grin: im looking at you SG, fair point didnt think :thumbup:




Not me. You'd make a crap detective mate :lol:

[Heuer]

A friend of mine is responsible for all the (27) European Ford GT's and he has some interesting stories to tell. The cars are not made by Ford but by a kit car manufacturer in the USA on Ford's behalf. Quality and practicality were not high on the list when it came to manufacture and they have become a bit of a PR disaster.



Firstly they over heat if driven in slow (50mph) traffic or on a hot day as the radiators are not good enough. Secondly they leak rain water as the sealing on the doors, which are cut into the roof, is totally ineffective when the car is parked and even worse when it is moving as the air lifts them! The list of other problems is too long to mention.



They are all being sent to the Aston Martin factory where they will be completely stripped and rebuilt to &quot;Ford standards&quot;. JC whinned so much they 'hand finished' his car to save face but it too will be returning to Newport Pagnall in September. You can imagine how much this has cost Ford and even though they pushed the price up by 50% they will suffer a huge loss.



The basic problem is everyone has come to expect modern cars will rarely break down and given the $billions cost of development this is usually accomplished. Trying to do the same with low volume production is impossible and you only have to look at Lotus, TVR and several others to see why.

[Madge]

The basic problem is everyone has come to expect modern cars will rarely break down and given the $billions cost of development this is usually accomplished. Trying to do the same with low volume production is impossible and you only have to look at Lotus, TVR and several others to see why.




I'm not entirely sure that's fair David. It's more of an issue that labour costs money whereas robots are cheap and if you pay peanuts you get monkeys :roll:

[Heuer]

The 'quality' of a car and it's components are all down to the original development which, in the case of a mainstream manufacturer, takes about 7 years. Everything from the engine to the tyres is tested for compatibility with the individual suppliers bearing much of the cost(e.g. Michelin). Bolting these bits together, whether by machine or manually, is rarely the cause of failure. Even the big boys suffer - every Ford Transit is currently having to have its water pump replaced because one lathe operator's in Brazil failed to check his tolerances on one part. It only affects one van in a hundred but they will all have to be replaced as they don't know which will be affected. As the pump seizes it destroys the power steering so a bit of a problem!



The new RR Phantom is a kit car - all the bits are sent over from Germany and hand assembled in Goodwood. The car works because BMW had the resources to ensure there was synergy with the various parts. People like Lotus and TVR, although building fine machines, cannot afford to do this so generally wing it and see what happens.



From the time the new BMW 5 series was officially launched it took 120 Alpina engineers two years to create the B5 and 80% of the car is standard. Go figure.

[Madge]

From the time the new BMW 5 series was officially launched it took 120 Alpina engineers two years to create the B5 and 80% of the car is standard. Go figure.


80% standard and it took them two years? :o~:-o~:eek:

Although to give them credit I expect they tried to improve on every single component (and had an 80% failure rate) as you'd expect Germans to do.

Contrast that with Mugen, who with Japanese efficiency tend to target the weakspots on any given Honda and then produce improved parts.

[Heuer]

80% standard and it took them two years? :o~:-o~:eek:

Although to give them credit I expect they tried to improve on every single component (and had an 80% failure rate) as you'd expect Germans to do.

Contrast that with Mugen, who with Japanese efficiency tend to target the weakspots on any given Honda and then produce improved parts.




Jobs to do: Re-work engine (70% new parts), suspension, exhaust, brakes, wheels, tyres (Michelin again) and re-map ABS, LSD, DSC, auto-box and engine software. No interest in bodywork, seats, instruments (although they use their own), sat-nav, air-bags, windows, seat belts, passive and active safety, carpets, interior trim, electrics, radio, alternator, starter motor, air-con, lights, sun roof etc, etc.



Alpina target any parts that may fail under the stress of their own power developments or not meet their performance and handling standards. Much like Mugen.



They are currently locked in arguments with Michelin who will not sign off the tyres on a fully laden B5 Touring (5 people, luggage, dog etc) at 205 mph. Michelin are insisting it is speed limited to 186mph, but have signed off the saloon as OK. Delivery of my car has gone back to December as a result!

[Bobbles]

<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText">martintyler wrote on Mon, 13 June 2005 21:09</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">
more details please :)~:-)~:smile: what was on the show? i'll try and catch it tomorrow




Clarkson fixing up a old Rolls and <div class="dashed" style="padding: 3px;" align="center" width="100%">Reveal Spoiler (javascript://)<div align="left" id="3285331651837649107" style="visibility: hidden;">driving it into a pool.</div></div>

German sports car (i liked) with M3 engine compared to TVR Tuscan 2

Dr who doing star in a reasonably priced car.

Clarkson's Ford GT arriving

Cant remember much else, not the best of programmes imo






I thought his paint job was hilarious but then the spoiler thing was just pants.



The midget's new car was on the show too, it looked very nice indeed.



I don't like the best car song thing, crap idea and they should shelve it.

[Bobbles]

I do agree it wasn't the best episode of the series. However, reality check; a below par Top Gear is still better than 95% of the crap on TV.

[Bobbles]

Another great show I thought.



The E-Type was just gorgous but for £90k ....



The look on Damon Hill's face when he told him his lap time was a treat

[Jimmy]

Another great show I thought.



The E-Type was just gorgous but for £90k ....



The look on Damon Hill's face when he told him his lap time was a treat




images/smiley_icons/dito.gif



I liked the SLK and Boxster video too.

[martintyler]

What happened? I only just got in

[Uncle Eric]

Didn't see it :(

Did they compare the new SLK to the Boxster?



A lot of mags do this and I can never understand why.

Two totally different cars that don't really compete in the same market place. The only thing they have vaguely in common is pricing.



One's a soft GT car (which has improved considerably now) and one is a classic 'sports' car which also happens to be one of the best 'drivers' cars in the world.

[Bonesy]

I'm surprised you think that.



I agree the cars' designers have different goals and intentions, but the buyers don't.



sporty looks, a bit of power, and brand kudos/ german engineering.

if you're after envy down the squash club, and don't have kids, what other cars would you consider?

[Uncle Eric]

I'm surprised you think that.



I agree the cars' designers have different goals and intentions, but the buyers don't.




Have to disagree with you there mate. Whatever the goals of the design teams, in terms of marketing the cars are fairly clear cut. EG: First off I'm willing to bet a high percentage of SLK sales go to the fairer sex and vice versa for the Boxster.



The mags seem to be blind to the fact that they both have very clear cut marketing angles which are pointed at two different parts of the market which really do not overlap save for the pricing.



Can you ever imagine there would be any way a regular Porsche buyer would ever consider an SLK? I really can't see it myself :?~:-?~:???:



I know two SLK owners (both relations). Both are rich mans wifes who enjoy having their hair done on a daily basis and like to cruise around in their cars looking like rich mans wifes.



I know three Boxster owners (all three are friends), all are successful in their chosen careers, all are relatively high earners and all are guys who enjoy drivers cars and wouldn't swap their cars for SLK's if you threatened to shoot them.



Granted it takes more than five people to evaluate a marketplace but the above is probably pointing in the right direction.

[martintyler]

Just read a couple of comments on another board, it was clarkson who did the slk55 v 987s test. And because of that you can guess his verdict :)~:-)~:smile: The porsche hating sl55 owning journalist chose the slk of course. The boxster is apparent just for people who couldnt afford a 911.. well, yes, in most cases, so what - compare the two cars you have in front of you. Surely many slk owners would have an sl if they could afford it too?

[Heuer]

The SLK is faster to 60 but then will break down and bits will fall off it. Who'd have thought they would be saying that about the three pointed star ten years ago. MB sales worldwide are down 13%, BMW are up 26%, Porsche up 12%. Unfortunately Merc allowed the marketing boys to set the company pace instead of the engineers and the results are obvious - badly handling multi-niche market cars built to a price. I doubt they will ever recover as most people I know who bought a Merc in the last three years will never buy another.



By the way did anyone notice the E-Type was faster round the track than Clarkson's SL55 - he conveniently overlooked that one.

[Jimmy]

By the way did anyone notice the E-Type was faster round the track than Clarkson's SL55 - he conveniently overlooked that one.




I did and I pointed it out to my father.

[martintyler]

So you saw it? Give us some more details.. on this E-type and the slk v boxster please :)~:-)~:smile:

[Heuer]

E-Type was an Eagle conversion although they only did the suspension, wheels and brakes. If you want the Eagle Sport (full fast road engine)then expect to pay up to £120k but then you will go around the Top Gear track considerably faster! My E-Type is similar to the latter - 280BHP, 350lb/ft torgue.



Aston was a standard DB5 and also the slowest car around the Top Gear track so far but these cars are not about out and out performance, just pure driving bliss.



Boxster/SLK55 comparison was stupid. JC racing the cars through an army firing range with soldiers using laser rifles and him wearing a light sensitive jacket to record the hits. Idea being to see which car was 'safest'. SLK hit 13 times, more agile Boxster hit 6.

Pointless.



Repeated tonight I think.

[martintyler]

Cheers. So no stig laps in slk or boxster? Thats now twice they have had those two cars on the show and not done a decent report.



Repeat is tomorrow, and at 11:20pm instead of earlier due to people in white hitting yellow balls and grunting.

[Hotblack Desiato]

Had this on in the background...but it seemed to me all Clarkson really liked about the slk was the noise/response of the V8... didn't seem to rate the gearbox, handling or the build quality.

[martintyler]

Here's a SLK55 v Boxster S article.



http://motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0504_stars/index.h (http://motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0504_stars/index.html) tml



Boxster S matches the Carrera GT slalom time :)~:-)~:smile:

[Heuer]

Clarkson has sent his Ford GT back and got a full refund!

[Uncle Eric]

Clarkson has sent his Ford GT back and got a full refund!


:o~:-o~:eek: :o~:-o~:eek: Really? Can't say I blame him to be honest. Almost as if Colin Chapman came back from the dead to give the GT builders/designers lessons in car building.

[Jimmy]

<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText">Heuer wrote on Sun, 03 July 2005 12:49</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">
Clarkson has sent his Ford GT back and got a full refund!


:o~:-o~:eek: :o~:-o~:eek: Really? Can't say I blame him to be honest. Almost as if Colin Chapman came back from the dead to give the GT builders/designers lessons in car building.






Wonder if it will be mentioned on tonights show.

[Bobbles]

Well they have given him a DB9 until he decides what to get (aparently)



great show tonight, loved the race.



One thing that really http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/images/smiley_icons/censored.gifed me off though was why didn't they put the DBR9 that you can buy round the test track. The full blown racer did it in 1' 08, 10 seconds faster than anything on the board; so i'm sure the one you can actually buy would have been the fastest on the board.

[Madge]

Good point Bob.

Then again, we know the Renault F1 can get round in under a minute, so there must be some BOSS cars 'available' than can do ~1 minute laps :nod:

[martintyler]

Isnt the one you can buy still a race car though, not road legal?

[Geezer]

Isnt the one you can buy still a race car though, not road legal?




That was my take on it too.



Martin think i saw your Boxster today, i assume you were playing very nice

:thumbup:

[martintyler]

yes, we were at home yesterday, beating Northwood :)~:-)~:smile:

[Bonesy]

Have to disagree with you there mate. Whatever the goals of the design teams, in terms of marketing the cars are fairly clear cut.



The mags seem to be blind to the fact that they both have very clear cut marketing angles which are pointed at two different parts of the market which really do not overlap save for the pricing.



Can you ever imagine there would be any way a regular Porsche buyer would ever consider an SLK? I really can't see it myself :?~:-?~:???:






yep, we're disagreeing. :)~:-)~:smile:



watched it the other day, it is the 5.5 litre AMG SLK. with rock-hard suspension as clarkson stated.



that's not for the henley lunching set, that's for petrol heads. AMG are targetting likley porsche owners. I agree that mercedes wouldn't, but then this is AMG.



now whether they get many porshce drivers is a fair point.

[Uncle Eric]

<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText">Uncle Eric wrote on Mon, 27 June 2005 12:05</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">


Have to disagree with you there mate. Whatever the goals of the design teams, in terms of marketing the cars are fairly clear cut.



The mags seem to be blind to the fact that they both have very clear cut marketing angles which are pointed at two different parts of the market which really do not overlap save for the pricing.



Can you ever imagine there would be any way a regular Porsche buyer would ever consider an SLK? I really can't see it myself :?~:-?~:???:






yep, we're disagreeing. :)~:-)~:smile:



watched it the other day, it is the 5.5 litre AMG SLK. with rock-hard suspension as clarkson stated.



that's not for the henley lunching set, that's for petrol heads. AMG are targetting likley porsche owners. I agree that mercedes wouldn't, but then this is AMG.



now whether they get many porshce drivers is a fair point.




Didn't realize we were talking about AMG mate. Obviously far more meaty than vanilla flavoured Mercs but I think we almost agree on the fact that even Paul McKenna would have trouble convincing dyed in the wool Porsche owners to walk towards the three pointed star.

[martintyler]

<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText">Clarkson</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">


July 03, 2005



Sorry, Ford, I have to ask for my money back

By Jeremy Clarkson of The Sunday Times













Thirty-five years ago I promised myself that one day I'd own a Ford GT40, the blue-collar supercar that took an axle grinder to Ferrari's aristocratic halo at Le Mans. But 25 years ago my dreams were dashed as I grew too tall to fit inside.

Happily, in 2002 Ford announced that it was to build a modern-day version of the old racer. It would, they said, cost less than £100,000 and do more than 200mph. They also said it would be much bigger than the original so pylon-people like me would be able to drive it.



And so, two years ago, having tested a prototype in America, I placed an order for one of the 28 that were coming to Britain.







As the months groaned by there were rumours of big price increases, insatiable thirst and catastrophic suspension failure. But there were also rumours of the supercharged V8 pumping out 550bhp and a mountain of torque so massive it was breaking the testing equipment. So I didn't mind.



I didn't even mind when it arrived at my house one month ago inside a truck which had “On Time” written down the side. As we know from America's arrival into the second world war, their concept of “on time” differs slightly from ours.



And anyway, it looked so gorgeous, a mass of bulging muscle struggling to contain that massive 5.4 litre supercharged heart. It doesn't look like a GT40 but it looks like a GT40 looks in your head. And it's huge. Longer than a Volvo XC90 and as wide as a Hummer.



Which is why, on its first run, to London, it was like a blue and white Pied Piper trailing a stream of ratty hatches in its wake. Everyone was taking pictures, waving, giving me the thumb's up. Never, not once in 15 years of road testing cars, had anything drawn such a massive crowd. And never had the crowd been so overtly supportive.



Of course you can't run a car like this without a few problems rearing their head from time to time. It's too wide for the width restrictions on Hammersmith bridge - backing up earned me a slot on the traffic news that morning. The turning circle means every mini roundabout becomes a three-point turn, and at oblique junctions, as is the case in a Ferrari Enzo, you absolutely cannot see if anything's coming.



But set against this is a surprisingly quiet and civilised ride. It's like a power station. Silent, as it gets on with the job of brightening up your life.



Mind you, you are constantly aware of the Herculean power that nestles just over your right shoulder. Partly because you can see the supercharger belt whirring away in the rear-view mirror and partly because it makes a deep, dog-baiting rumble when you do put your foot down.



Ford asked that I keep the revs below 4000 for the first thousand miles. But since 100mph equates to 1900rpm it's not really a hardship. And at this speed you're doing 15mpg, which isn't bad at all. But three days later everything started to go very, very wrong.



Leaving the Top Gear studio, the immobiliser refused to un-immobilise itself. So the car was pushed into the hangar and I went home instead in a rented Toyota Corolla.



Ford sent a tow truck, changed the immobiliser and delivered the car to my house the following day. “Is it fixed?” I asked. “Yes,” they said.



It wasn't. At three in the morning the alarm blew. And then again at four. This meant my wife started to refer to it as “that f****** car”, which took away a bit of the sheen, if I'm honest.



The next day, on the way back to the garage, I received a call on the hands-free phone from the tracker company. “Your car's been stolen, sir,” said the man. “I'm sure it hasn't,” I said, “because I'm in it.”



Fearing that I might be the burglar, the man asked if I could give him my password. Tricky one that, since I have a different password for everything on the internet and can never remember any of them. And that's a big problem, because the man at the end of the phone has the power to remotely shut down the engine.



I threatened him, lightly, with some physical harm, but this didn't work so I had to guess. “Aardvark,” I ventured. “Abacus, Aesop, additional . . .”



Eventually he took pity and I was able to deliver the car back to Ford with some stern warnings about the alarm, the immobiliser and the tracker system, all of which seemed to be malfunctioning. As a courtesy car they gave me a Ford Focus, with a diesel engine. Nice.



Two days later the GT was back. “Is it fixed?” I asked, again. “Yes,” they said



Five minutes out of the Ford garage I received a text to say my car had been stolen. And then, in the next half hour, three more. So, counting the two I'd received before I was even out of bed, that meant my car had been stolen five times before 9am.



This time I rang Ford and explained that I would personally come over there and insert the whole car up the chairman's backside if it wasn't fixed. And while I was on the phone a yellow warning light came on the dash.

“There's a yellow warning light on the dash,” I bellowed, like Michael Winner, only angrier. “Oh, that'll be something to do with the engine management system,” said the man with the bleeding ears. “You'll need to get it looked at . . .”



When Ford gave me the car back after its third hospital trip in as many weeks, I didn't ask if the security system was fixed. Because the notion of it still being broken was simply inconceivable.







So imagine my surprise when, one hour later, while at my daughter's school play, I heard a familiar siren. I couldn't believe it. The alarm had gone off again.



In a fury this time, I called Ford and explained, loudly, that Roush, the company charged with servicing and maintaining the 28 GTs in Britain, was plainly incompetent. And that there was simply no point asking it to fix the alarm again because it'd had three goes already.



I then did something the man at Ford wasn't expecting. I asked for my money back.





And that, the next day, is what happened.





They put £126,000 in my account and sent a man to pick up the car. “Is it the alarm system?” he said. “They all do that.”



So there we are. A 35-year dream. A two-year wait. Ten years of damn hard work. And what do I get? The most miserable month's motoring it is possible to imagine.



Strangely, however, as the GT rumbled down my drive for the last time, I felt like Julie Walters watching Michael Caine getting on the plane at the end of Educating Rita. I actually cried.















There's a very good reason for this. I genuinely believe that some machines have a soul and I can't bear to think of my Ford sitting in a warehouse now, unloved and unwanted. It is fine. It is perfect. It knows it's a great, great car that was ruined by a useless ape who fitted a crummy aftermarket alarm system.



Ford has said I can buy the car back any time. It has even lent me an Aston Martin DB9 while I make up my mind. I don't know though. I just don't know.



Normally I finish these columns with an opinion of mine. But this time it's the other way round. I'd love to hear yours.



One thing: I know I could sell the car privately and make a £50,000 profit. But I have never profited from my position as a motoring journalist. And I never will.



VITAL STATISTICS



Model Ford GT

Engine 5409cc V8 supercharged

Power 550bhp @ 6500rpm

Torque 500lb ft @ 3750rpm

Transmission Six-speed manual

Fuel 14.6mpg (combined cycle)

CO2 N/A

Acceleration 0-60mph: 3.8sec

Top speed 212mph

Price £126,000

Verdict So good you can have mine

Rating Five stars

[martintyler]

I think the slk55 could take a few boxster owners, but not many. It costs a fair bit more, getting on for a 911, which is where a lot of boxster owners would go if they had the money for the slk55. It has a great engine, but for me, personally, it's still an slk which although the new one looks much better, the overall proportions just look too small and girlie to me.

[Geezer]

Clarksons column made for interesting reading. I think i would have done the same.

[Madge]

Clarksons column made for interesting reading. I think i would have done the same.


Heartbreaking really :nod:

He seemed to really like the SLR though :D~:-D~:grin:

[Geezer]

<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText">Geezer wrote on Mon, 04 July 2005 10:52</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">
Clarksons column made for interesting reading. I think i would have done the same.


Heartbreaking really :nod:

He seemed to really like the SLR though :D~:-D~:grin:






:bow: The noise was superb. Lovely car

[Heuer]

I think JC is being a prima donna nancy boy. Throwing a hissy fit just because an aftermarket alarm system fails a couple of times. Buying a £120k kit car an expecting everything to work is a bit naive Jeremy. A friend of mine has had more problems with her new Range Rover Sport in the last week. The issues my business partner has had with his SL55 is too long to list - piece of junk!



There was an article in the Saturday Daily Telegraph by someone (not a celeb) who took delivery of his Ford GT last week and drove it straight from the dealer to the ferry for a blast through Europe. No problems and seems to have enjoyed himself immensley. Now that is someone who deserves a fast car.

[Heuer]

<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText">Madge wrote on Mon, 04 July 2005 11:39</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">
<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText">Geezer wrote on Mon, 04 July 2005 10:52</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">
Clarksons column made for interesting reading. I think i would have done the same.


Heartbreaking really :nod:

He seemed to really like the SLR though :D~:-D~:grin:






:bow: The noise was superb. Lovely car




This one even exceeded the Mercedes crash test parameters - they had never seen anything like it! MB buys back all crashed SLR's as a matter of policy.





http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=getfile&amp;id=4141

[Geezer]

<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText">Geezer wrote on Mon, 04 July 2005 11:39</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">
<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText">Madge wrote on Mon, 04 July 2005 11:39</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">
<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText">Geezer wrote on Mon, 04 July 2005 10:52</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">
Clarksons column made for interesting reading. I think i would have done the same.


Heartbreaking really :nod:

He seemed to really like the SLR though :D~:-D~:grin:






:bow: The noise was superb. Lovely car




This one even exceeded the Mercedes crash test parameters - they had never seen anything like it! MB buys back all crashed SLR's as a matter of policy.





http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=getfile&amp;id=4141




I take it by the attachment title that was Naseem Hameds car? Nasty

[martintyler]

I think JC is being a prima donna nancy boy. Throwing a hissy fit just because an aftermarket alarm system fails a couple of times. Buying a £120k kit car an expecting everything to work is a bit naive Jeremy.




I agree. While the problems are probably very annoying, if it was a dream car then you would put up with it.. yes get angry with them, use your status even to make a big deal over it, but giving it back just seems like cutting your nose off.

[Madge]

Actually my sympathies go to JC on this. If you're dumb enough to spend that amount of money on a car and then put up with any faults that relate to using the car in it's intended manner, then there really is something wrong with you.

I say intended manner, as if you try and drive a track day Ferrari around central London in rush hour, you get what you pay for.



At some point typing that I realised I'd turned into my father :lol:

[markb84]

Anyone see the lap in the race spec DB9? Truly amazing, shame it's a track car so didn't qualify but that was a bloody quick lap and the car is gorgeous

[martintyler]

Actually my sympathies go to JC on this. If you're dumb enough to spend that amount of money on a car and then put up with any faults that relate to using the car in it's intended manner, then there really is something wrong with you.

I say intended manner, as if you try and drive a track day Ferrari around central London in rush hour, you get what you pay for.



At some point typing that I realised I'd turned into my father :lol:




Noone said you should put up with it.. but giving it back is a different matter, thats just giving up without a fight.

[Uncle Eric]

MB buys back all crashed SLR's as a matter of policy.





http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=getfile&amp;id=4141


Bit of a shame really as I would love to see a bodge up job on one of these from a Leyton scrap dealer :lol:



Exhaust from a Nova, a pair of Rover doors with double glazing hinges that sort of go upward and a high tech 1.6 Fiat engine.



Couple of go faster stripes down the side and job done :D~:-D~:grin:

[juboy]

Best thing in last night's show was seeing Hammond being sea sick :lol:



I quite like the way they're doing a proper insight into each of the top driving songs selection, breaks the show up nicely.



Not too sure why they were all going quite so ga-ga over the Alfa, it looked good but not that good.



Can Clarkson really get away with saying 'nursing a semi' before 9pm?

[Heuer]

At some point typing that I realised I'd turned into my father :lol:




I recently picked up my 25 year old son from the station and he complained I was driving too fast (&quot;What about the speed cameras&quot;) and the hi-fi was too loud (&quot;Are you deaf?&quot;). I wonder what age the crossover point is?

[Madge]

Noone said you should put up with it.. but giving it back is a different matter, thats just giving up without a fight.


Well, putting my sensible hat back on, think about how much your time is worth on an hourly basis, then work out how many hours you could spend turning your dream car into a usable car. Add that on top of the price of the car and the TCO just goes through the roof.



Then again I have no soul as my dream car is a Honda NSX Type-R :lol:



(I'll get my pipe and slippers)

[martintyler]

Can Clarkson really get away with saying 'nursing a semi' before 9pm?




They have talked about trouser accidents when looking at certain new cars before too :)~:-)~:smile:

[Heuer]

Well, putting my sensible hat back on, think about how much your time is worth on an hourly basis, then work out how many hours you could spend turning your dream car into a usable car. Add that on top of the price of the car and the TCO just goes through the roof.






It has taken me five years and 15k miles to get my totally rebuilt E-Type to the way I want it. And the fit of the drivers door is still not 'quite' right - new hinges might do the trick. Do I begrudge it - no and if ever I do, pressing the starter button quickly dispells such thoughts. The Kracken awakes!

[Madge]

<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText">Madge wrote on Mon, 04 July 2005 12:54</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">




At some point typing that I realised I'd turned into my father :lol:




I recently picked up my 25 year old son from the station and he complained I was driving too fast (&quot;What about the speed cameras&quot;) and the hi-fi was too loud (&quot;Are you deaf?&quot;). I wonder what age the crossover point is?




An interesting question. Although we (your son and I) are the same age, he's turned into a generic old man, where as I still drive too fast (but in a Honda) and listen to the hi-fi too loud, in a quasi-sensible manner :lol:

[Bonesy]

MB buys back all crashed SLR's as a matter of policy.






I bet they do, cheaper than doing their own crash tests, more realistic, and they don't have to worry about old kit hanging around the place, and they can do their own cut'n'shuts. cool.

[Heuer]

MB reckon it is the most fragmented SLR yet and exceeded crash test fragmentation. They buy it back from the insurance company as a matter of policy on all written off SLR's globally.



Did you know that it is impossible to recycle carbon fibre/Kevlar compounds? Hence the buy back

[juboy]

I thought last Sunday's edition was the worst so far this series. Reviewing two cars that were essentially the same (the new Ferrari coupe and convertible), the most dull star in a reasonably priced car they've yet had and then having a group test with no specific outcome.



Clarkson really does seem to have something personal against the Nissan 350Z too.

[martintyler]

I missed it on sunday as usual, and i am out tonight for the repeat. Wouldnt have minded seeing the 430 - but its not really going to look much different to a test of a 360 and i know the laptime already.



I'd love them to test a whole load of cars, retest some of them, and just do one spot on the show for the lot - just to fill in gaps that people are interested in

[Bobbles]

I quite enjoyed it, as normal; it did make a change for them to look at 3 cars which are not completely silly money.



I would have definitely taken the 350Z over the over 2; I think the TT is looking a little stale now.



Loved the 430, it wouldn't surprise me if JC ends up buying one such was his praise.

[Geezer]

I quite enjoyed it, as normal; it did make a change for them to look at 3 cars which are not completely silly money.








I agree with juboy weakest in the series so far imo. Still better than half the tripe on tv at the moment though

[bells0]

Clarkson really does seem to have something personal against the Nissan 350Z too.




Clarkson was given a Japenese JDM model 350Z Coupe to test before it was released over here, totally different beast to what is actually made for the Euro market.



He made an opinion on that and will not go back on it, typical Clarkson being stubborn!



All he had to moan about in the end was that it has a subwoofer behind the driver seat - something i quite like when i need a massage! :P~:-P~:razz: and that it makes an awful noise!! I love the sound of the V6, and it is weird seen as anything he drives that is worth £100k more he loves the sound of!



Not that i'm biased guys :o~:-o~:eek: :lol:

[bells0]

ps - and next time i'm in the market for a rear wheel drive car, i'll deffo ask if i can test it on Scarborough North Beach! w)



Style over substance seems to be TG's policy at the mo, even though the shots they get tedn to be gorgeous :bow:

[Bob007]

A little disappointed in how the Astra VXR performed, handling wise, far too much power going to those front wheels, but then JC did slate the Focus RS for the same reason IIRC, but this hasn't put anyone off the RS and is loved a lot by their owners. I don't think this will put folk of to be honest, it wouldn't me. Will have a chance to test drive the Astra VXR in a week or so, son works for Vauxhall and will be bringing the demo home with him, there are a few muppets round here I want to pi55 off before it goes back.:twisted: Thought it was the better looking car and looked stunning in red.



Loved the BMW M5 review, he had me going there for a minute, thats until he pushed the &quot;M&quot; button, then the thing just came to life. :o~:-o~:eek:

[juboy]

The Astra was the car I'd have had out of those three. At that price it's a total bargain... also nice to see some people are still making affordable 'daft' cars, we need more of that IMO.



Thought this week's show was a definite improvement over the last week's one. Chris Evans was entertaining and I had to admit that I agreed with James May about the woman he was driving home who kept butting in to his road test review, she was definitely strangely alluring :thumbup:

[Bob007]

also nice to see some people are still making affordable 'daft' cars, we need more of that IMO.








My thoughts excactly, about time we had the bonkers bhp cars back. I think the manufacturers had a kick up the behind when they found out how many sales they were losing with those importing their fun cars, there does seem a glut of them at the moment, around here anyway.



As for the handling of these cars, I don't think many would be driving that hard on a day-to-day basis, or even on the days you want a bit of fun, I reckon driving at 90% of what this car is capable of would give more than pleasurable results. But when losing a race you could use a really cool excuse, &quot;couldn't get the power down, too much of it&quot;. :D~:-D~:grin:

[baileych]

Focus RS is loved




images/smiley_icons/wub.gif

[Uncle Eric]

Missed this one. Anyone know when the repeat will be shown?

[Geezer]

Missed this one. Anyone know when the repeat will be shown?




Last night

[Bomb_Squad]

Missed this one. Anyone know when the repeat will be shown?




Hold on for a couple of weeks &amp; they'll show it on channel 566 (UKTV people)



They've already shown the recent Mclaren Merc SLR / Boat race to Oslo.



Adz

[Uncle Eric]

Was this one tonight. Missed it if it was. And I have Sky+ now :(

[Geezer]

Was this one tonight. Missed it if it was. And I have Sky+ now :(






:roll: :D~:-D~:grin:



Just set up a series link mate :thumbup:

[martintyler]

What was on last nights show? any good?

[coolchris_cockram]

i quite liked the off road toys part of the show, i liked the q-pod. i now know what i want for christmas... anyone know where i can buy one from?



http://www.dorsetpolice.org/news/photos/1092299437.jpg

[juboy]

What was on last nights show? any good?




There was a lot of non-car stuff, like Chris said they had some q-pods, hovvercrafts and other off-road stuff (although one was road legal IIRC). They had another report from Iceland, again about off-road stuff, which was cool.



The cars they covered were the new BMW diesel and the new Bently four door (fastest production saloon top speed in the World apparently).

[shodan]

i quite liked the off road toys part of the show, i liked the q-pod. i now know what i want for christmas... anyone know where i can buy one from?



http://www.dorsetpolice.org/news/photos/1092299437.jpg




Wahay, another person from my neck of the woods finds their way to AV Talk!!

Wasa good Top Gear this time with the Bently actually doing 190mph and still pulling!!! And I loved the off road buggy with a top speed of 110mph and 0-60 in under 3 seconds!!!! I want one!!!! :bow:

[martintyler]

Great, just flicked onto bbc2 to find this weeks repeat is today instead of the usual tuesday! and just finishing!

[Uncle Eric]

Missed it!

Tell me again why I bought into Sky + :(

[martintyler]

Hold on for a couple of weeks &amp; they'll show it on channel 566 (UKTV people)



They've already shown the recent Mclaren Merc SLR / Boat race to Oslo.



Adz




I watched top gear on UKTV at 11pm last night and it was one from a few series ago.



Top Gear, the most elusive program on TV.

[coolchris_cockram]

Hey,

i just stomabled across this site, its pretty good and worht a look, the forum is good for the music in the shows aswell



http://www.finalgear.com/

[Heuer]

Missed it!

Tell me again why I bought into Sky + :(




Because you didn't listen to my advice and buy a TiVo! :roll:

[Uncle Eric]

<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText">Uncle Eric wrote on Tue, 02 August 2005 15:28</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">
Missed it!

Tell me again why I bought into Sky + :(




Because you didn't listen to my advice and buy a TiVo! :roll:


:o~:-o~:eek: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[juboy]

Latest series starts 8pm, Sunday 13th November :clap:



<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText">Quote:</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">


Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and James May head for the Isle of Man to decide which is best: the new baby Aston Martin - the V8 Vantage, the BMW M6 or the Porsche 911 Carrera S.

[BLONDIE]

Latest series starts 8pm, Sunday 13th November :clap:



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Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and James May head for the Isle of Man to decide which is best: the new baby Aston Martin - the V8 Vantage, the BMW M6 or the Porsche 911 Carrera S.







I'm a happy man, the return of the best car show ever :bow: and can't wait to see the shoot out between the aston, porsche, and BMW :clap: Sunday nights have just got good again :thumbup:

PS Clarkson, can't you kidnapp V.B.H. images/smiley_icons/wub.gif then it would truly be the ultimate car show :clap: :clap:

[markb84]

They've got the veyron in this series apparently

[martintyler]

They've got the veyron in this series apparently




Shame none of them are top notch drivers except for the stig who doesnt speak.



I prefer top gear, but when it comes to a decent car i'd prefer to see Tiff driving it

[martintyler]

Good show. Shame the rain spoils so many of their tests.



Good win for the Porsche over the Aston and BMW M6. Aston looks and sounds fantastic.. but look at those times, the Porsche thrashed them! and with loads less power and less money.



Would have liked to see lap times on their normal track for those three.

[Uncle Eric]

when it comes to a decent car i'd prefer to see Tiff driving it


Couldn't agree more.

I would have picked the 911 even before it wiped the floor with the Aston and BMW. Look at it this way, the car is still the target for all to beat. The reference level if you will :bow:



Oh and I agree, the Aston looked wonderful.

[martintyler]

My mate is currently selling his 997S as his AMV8 will be ready in a few months. He drove one for the first time last week.. and same as just about every magazine says, great car, looks/sounds amazing, not quite as good as a 997. That wont stop people buying it of course, and no reason why it should.



I kind of agreed with Hammond on the M6, why would you get that instead of an M5?

[Uncle Eric]

My mate is currently selling his 997S as his AMV8 will be ready in a few months. He drove one for the first time last week.. and same as just about every magazine says, great car, looks/sounds amazing, not quite as good as a 997. That wont stop people buying it of course, and no reason why it should.



I kind of agreed with Hammond on the M6, why would you get that instead of an M5?


The only possible negative I can think about for the 911 is the over familiarity of the car. For its die hard fans (and I'm one of them) it still looks the biz and always will. In fact the 997 is IMHO the best looking incarnation of the car ever.



Others look at it as an almost morbid Dorian Gray of cars and can't understand why most 911 fans reject a change too far (996?)



It's great to see other marks producing one new car after another but please Porsche. We need at least one classic in the world. Just keep honing this one and leave a good thing alone.



Agree that BMW have a real boo boo on their hands re one model competing against the other. M5/M6.



The really knowledgeable folks looking for great drivers cars are going for neither. Alpina are doing better cars (B5 anyone)

[BLONDIE]

welcome back Top Gear, thought the show was great with cars that i want and a good mix of humour :clap: i also like the constant dig at all those tree loving people. if you got the money buy the biggest petrol guzling car possiable :clap: PS for me the Aston was perfect, what a sound :bow: :clap:

[stealther]

Missed it!



Anybody know if the show repeats and what time channel?

[Bonesy]

Eric, Martin, Sorry, totally disagree.



as the boys said, total badge snobbery at this level, which is where aston will sell.



The only area a M6 and M5 compete is in performance. unles you need 4 doors, or hate the looks, you'd choose a m6 as a tourer gt.





as for 911's, yep, 40 years of engineering means it performs well against two new models,



but own a porker and people will increasingly point and say 'cock factor'





http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,12529-1868180,00 (http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,12529-1868180,00.html) .html

[Uncle Eric]

Eric,

as for 911's, yep, 40 years of engineering means it performs well against two new models,




Performs well against new models? 6 seconds is more than that mate. The 911 wiped the floor with them.






but own a porker and people will increasingly point and say 'cock factor'


Totally disagree. I think its one of the most understated looking and least flashy cars in its class. Clarkson needs his head examining sometimes. There are several cars in and around that class with masses more 'cock factor', flash, bling, you name it.



In fact most 911/997 owners pride themselves in the 911's understated looks. The fact that the 997 doesn't turn heads in the way many other cars in the price bracket do is part and parcel of 997 ownership. Therefore quite the oppoiste in fact. Reverse cock factor if you like.

[Bonesy]

reverse cock factor? hmmm, fanny factor?



I know mate, only baiting.



6 seconds is wiping the floor... with the stig driving. but kudos to it anyway.



you're right, of course, 911 is less exotic or flash than previously. partly becuase of understated/(out-dated?) styling.



my post was areaction to likening you and martin to richard hammond, a through and through 911 advocate. ;)~;-)~:wink:

[Bonesy]

oh, and I missed the part about the top gear survey, what car won this year? again. 8)~8-)~:cool:

[holtehero]

6 seconds was more down to the ceramic brakes than anything else i would bet - especially in that weather.



Would have been interesting to see if the power of the M6 would have been better used in the dry



Would rather have the Aston, Porsches are for accountants



Yes they said the S2000 was the winner, apart from those in Yellow

[Uncle Eric]

reverse cock factor? hmmm, fanny factor?



I know mate, only baiting.



6 seconds is wiping the floor... with the stig driving. but kudos to it anyway.



you're right, of course, 911 is less exotic or flash than previously. partly becuase of understated/(out-dated?) styling.



my post was areaction to likening you and martin to richard hammond, a through and through 911 advocate. ;)~;-)~:wink:


My reverse cock factor comment was meant to go in the direction of Clarksons rear end :lol:



One of the reasons I believe this car should go down as an all time great (possibly the greatest) is the fact that after all these years, it's still considered to be the reference level in that bracket, something to which all other car makers try to beat or even aspire to. True it has evolved so much over the years that its virtually nothing like the first 911 that rolled out of the factory over 40 years ago but part of what people buy into is the illusion they're buying a fully sorted and honed modern day classic. The real trick by Porsche is the fact that it's not actually an illusion. It's reality!



For every Clarkson out there, there are 10 knowledgeable motoring journalists that have no problem in proclaiming the 997 as currently the best car on the planet.



If there are any kind souls around, please loan me £70k. I want one badly :(

[Uncle Eric]

Yes they said the S2000 was the winner, apart from those in Yellow


:lol: :lol:

I'm surprised S2000 owners had time to put their hairdryers down and vote.



As you can see from the survey. Audi owners couldn't be bothered with this voting nonsense. We prefer to drive our cars and not shout about it too much :D~:-D~:grin: :lol:

[Uncle Eric]

6 seconds was more down to the ceramic brakes than anything else i would bet - especially in that weather.




I think the 997's ceramics had a fair bit to do with it but I also think it probably lays down the power better than the other two. IMHO the 997's brakes would give it an even bigger advantage in the dry :?~:-?~:???:

[martintyler]

Eric, Martin, Sorry, totally disagree.



as the boys said, total badge snobbery at this level, which is where aston will sell.



The only area a M6 and M5 compete is in performance. unles you need 4 doors, or hate the looks, you'd choose a m6 as a tourer gt.






i'm not really sure what you are disagreeing with me about





m5/m6 - unless you need 4 doors or hate the looks or an extra 20 grand in your bank account. My impression is that the M6 is no nimble sports car, and therefore the M5 is probably just as good.. so the M6's only benefit is its looks, if you like that which many dont

[Geezer]

<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText">holtehero wrote on Mon, 14 November 2005 11:18</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">
6 seconds was more down to the ceramic brakes than anything else i would bet - especially in that weather.




I think the 997's ceramics had a fair bit to do with it but I also think it probably lays down the power better than the other two. IMHO the 997's brakes would give it an even bigger advantage in the dry :?~:-?~:???:






The brakes would definatley be more of an advantage in the dry, i dont think they would have made a massive difference in this test. I agree that it is just able to lay down the power more effictivley.



Its repeated on Tuesday i think if anyone missed it.

[ricdiggle]

I didn't see this but if it was the usual circuit. No brakes in the world would make 6 seconds difference. The difference is Porsche. (They should use that!)



There has never been a car like the 911. It is virtually perfect, especially when it has a turbo fitted and 4 wheel drive. 996 turbo is the most fun I've ever had with or without clothing!



P.S. 997 is lovely to behold but 993 is still the daddy in the looks department. It's the huge rear arches that make it so special.



Richard

[Matt Horne]

Nah mate this time they had the moutain road on the isle of man closed for this....



But the weather was terrible :)~:-)~:smile:



Loved the Family saloon celeb bit.. hilarious :thumbup:

[Madge]

One of the reasons I believe this car should go down as an all time great (possibly the greatest) is the fact that after all these years, it's still considered to be the reference level in that bracket, something to which all other car makers try to beat or even aspire to. True it has evolved so much over the years that its virtually nothing like the first 911 that rolled out of the factory over 40 years ago but part of what people buy into is the illusion they're buying a fully sorted and honed modern day classic. The real trick by Porsche is the fact that it's not actually an illusion. It's reality!


According to Paul Frere (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1859608396/qid=1132006437/sr=8-5/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i5_xgl/203-1636815-9541526) the 997 is nothing like the original 911!



I heartily reccomend this book to anyone with even a passing interest in Porsches BTW.



There's a good quote in there about the 911 engine (virtally unchanged until the 997 came along).

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If I'd known it could be stretched to 3.5 litres, I would have told them it was too heavy and sent them back to the drawing board

[markb84]

Ceramic brakes are actually performance restricting in the wet as they shed heat too quickly,meaning although the braking surface is more effective the brakes are to cold to work as they are designed to.

motogp bikes use metal discs in the wet and cermic in the dry, the same is true of some of the higher car series as well.

[juboy]

Much as I love Honda, I suspect there must be more than a little galvanising of UK S2000 owners going on for it to have topped the survey - although I don't doubt that it's top marking Vs. number/type of people who bought them would have been high.



I, along with many others, still believe the ITR to be the best car they ever made (and many still believe it to be the best front wheel drive car ever made) and realise that the people that own them will defend them to the death, despite their flaws.



As for the Porsche thing... sorry, but I'm in the camp that just would not own a Porsche. Too obvious, no matter how good. I'd have gone for the Aston purely because it's not German.



I thought the Ascari was to die for :bow:



Great opening show though, with some almost Hollywood quality direction and cinematography. As Bonesy rightly said to me, Fifth Gear might as well give up.

[Bonesy]

actually, that was debated on the s2000 forums.



last year, maybe it stirred up some logons,

this year, few bothered.



and also, there are bigger fanboy sites for better selling cars, such as golfs, TTs, and of course boxa.nets..



last year most hondas did well, but you're probably right.

[Uncle Eric]

Audi RS4. I want one :o~:-o~:eek:

[Geezer]

Audi RS4. I want one :o~:-o~:eek:




You and me both mate

[BLONDIE]

loved the show alst night, yet again loads better than 5th gear :clap: i too thought the RS4 was amazing. i think a lot of M3 owners will be swapping :lol: and by the way, that rock climber was mad :o~:-o~:eek:

[martintyler]

hopefully i'll catch this weeks show tomorrow on the repeat.



I just saw an Ascari driving down Old Street!

[Uncle Eric]

Clarkson seems to have a real grudge against Porsche. The Cockster as he put it is one of the quickest point to point cars in the world, nicely built, looks great (in most peoples eyes) and still he moans.



He even moaned about the fact that the car slotted into the middle of the range. We are dealing with Germans here, these guys are very efficient. That's where the Caymen was meant to slot in and that's what it does. Yes we know the car was deliberately stunted to hold it back behind the 911 but so what. You pay your money you take your choice.



He does have a point about they way Porsche price up their cars in terms of standard/optional equipment. Then again you don't have to have every item. If I were buying a £40k+ car tomorrow, there are certain things it must have. As far as I'm concerned, leather, climate and sat nav are the holy trinity!



Going back to to the RS4, I've read quite a bit about it and I do have a test drive lined up via my Audi dealer. Will let you know how things pan out.



Build quality on this thing is immense. The seats are like scluptures, and the brutal 40 valve free reving V8 engine will end up in an engineering hall of fame. With or without Clarksons praise, Audi will sell thousands.



I'd like to see this monster drive/power train on a more sporty looking number. Then again my prayers might be answered.



The new A4 (along with the Coupe version), could look something like this (http://www.wheels24.co.za/Wheels24/News/0,,1369-1372_1822250,00.html) while at the same time, rumor has it Audi will be using the RS4 platform in their new Nuvolari/Le Mans.

[ricdiggle]

As far as I'm concerned, leather, climate and sat nav are the holy trinity!






Depends on the Manufacturer. Having been round the Porsche Factory, I'd certianly recommend theirs as being th biggest bargain on the planet. It is litterally hand stitched onto the panels. The bits they were throwing out were incredily good quality too but had small barbed wire marks and holes on them.



Having seen the excuse for a seat covering that BMW call leather, I wouldn't pay them any extra for it and do in fact have coth in mine.



Richard

[chaosjdp]

Clarkson seems to have a real grudge against Porsche. The Cockster as he put it is one of the quickest point to point cars in the world, nicely built, looks great (in most peoples eyes) and still he moans.






I find it quite refreshing to see a review of a Porsche where the reviewer isn't gushing. It evens things up on the show as well, as Hammond and May are totally pro Porsche.



Fifth Gear are the same. They did a track review with members of the public testing various convertibles including the Boxster. There were 3 Boxsters at the event but what wasn't even mentioned on the show was that the clutches on all 3 went during the day and the cars had to be pushed onto the track for the final lineup. If this had been another manufacturer I bet they wouldn't have kept quiet.

[martintyler]

I find it quite refreshing to see a review of a Porsche where the reviewer isn't gushing.




Clarkson is anything but refreshing when it comes to Porsches, he's been saying the same things for years, always without any objective criticisms.

[common]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4458926.stm



Top Gear just picked up an Emmy :bow:

[juboy]

Clarkson is anything but refreshing when it comes to Porsches, he's been saying the same things for years




Maybe that's because they haven't really changed much for years?



The RS4 did look good, although why you'd spend £20k more on a slower car than the otherwise very similar Evo VIII is hard to fathom, especially as the Evo VIII looks better than the RS4.



Once again though, Top Gear proved itself to be about the best UK made television show currently on our screens.

[Uncle Eric]

The RS4 did look good, although why you'd spend £20k more on a slower car than the otherwise very similar Evo VIII is hard to fathom, especially as the Evo VIII looks better than the RS4.




Audi are at the top of the game at the moment in build quality stakes and I think there are a lot of people of a certain age group (probably the over 40's) that would pay £20k more for the extra quality and luxury they would get owning a car like the RS4.

[Mr John]

The RS4 did look good, although why you'd spend £20k more on a slower car than the otherwise very similar Evo VIII is hard to fathom, especially as the Evo VIII looks better than the RS4.








:puke:



Sorry mate, have to disagree on that point.

Evo is far to much Max Power.

Hell of a motor though otherwise !

[juboy]

I'm not saying the Evo VIII is a beauty, far from it. However, the RS4 looks so bland it's barely there.

[markb84]

I would definately have the RS4 if it was going to use it for business, however would much rather have an evo

[martintyler]

The RS4 did look good, although why you'd spend £20k more on a slower car than the otherwise very similar Evo VIII is hard to fathom, especially as the Evo VIII looks better than the RS4.




Is it really similar? Isnt the Evo a highly turbo-charged highly tuned small engine, compared to a big V8 of the RS4. I'd prefer the RS4 by a mile, both in looks and just about everything else.

[BLONDIE]

Well let's see how the new ST Focus gets on in the hands of Clarkson. he like me is a hot hatch fan, but after owning the current ST170 which i would say is a warm hatch i've gone and left the fast Ford club and have ordered an Golf R32 :clap: :clap: so please new ST don't be too good as £20K is better then £25k :o~:-o~:eek:

[ricdiggle]

I'm not saying the Evo VIII is a beauty, far from it. However, the RS4 looks so bland it's barely there.




That's the appeal really. (same appeal that sells 911s) I'd be hard pressed to choose between them Ideally, I'd have both:lol:



Evo is £30 of suspension, brakes, steering and turbo. It's for driving hard and is pretty poor in most other areas. The RS4 is built as a luxury car that goes like a rocket ship.

Actually, it's a no brainer - I'd have the EVO every time.



RE: Porsche bias of Clarkson. He was (maybe still is) a weekend Ferrari driver. Ferraris are great if a little cliche now as long as you can stomach the repair / running costs. He's always been anti Porsche.



5th gear recently tested the Cayenne against the X5. The Porsche was clearly not favoured then.



Richard

[martintyler]

5th gear recently tested the Cayenne against the X5. The Porsche was clearly not favoured then.




I dont really follow the cayenne that much but i thought most people raved about it having sportscar like handling etc.. but i saw that 5th gear too. It wasnt the turbo was it? I wonder if the turbo is much different, other than the extra power

[ricdiggle]

It has very different, adjustable suspension.



The Cayenne is a great car (if hideously ugly) the Turbo is insane to put it mildly. It handles around 85% of a 911 carrera (S or 4) and seems just as fast to be honest. It makes no sense in the real world and when throwing either a turbo or an 's' Cayenne at a bend at the speeds it's capable of, just seems wrong every single time.



Richard

[juboy]

Is it really similar?




I meant in that they're both very fast, four door 'family' cars.



If you want luxury, surely there are better cars for the money than the RS4? And if luxury isn't the main factor, save yourself £20k and get an Evo VIII, a car that is both faster and cooler than the RS4.

[martintyler]

I meant in that they're both very fast, four door 'family' cars.



If you want luxury, surely there are better cars for the money than the RS4? And if luxury isn't the main factor, save yourself £20k and get an Evo VIII, a car that is both faster and cooler than the RS4.




It's not that black and white.. what if luxury is just a factor and not the main one? The RS4 is perfect for lots of people. Cooler is subjective, i really cant stand evos/suburus etc and think they are very uncool - i'd love to drive one for a while, but wouldnt spend money buying one whatever the price.

[juboy]

Suburus aren't cool, Evo's are 8)~8-)~:cool:



I agree that the RS4 is a great car and also perfect for some people, I just don't think it's worth £50k. That's almost twice the price of the TT.

[ricdiggle]

Subarus are cool! There are just n awful lot of very uncool ones around! I'd say the same is true for EVOs but not to the same extent.



The RS4 is very luxurious indeed. It is much much more practical than the EVO. Silly things like the fact the doors open to almost 90 degrees with the car to aid getting kids in down to important stuff like you could take it to the south of France for a drive. If you did that in the EVO, you'd spend at least the extra £30,000 on chyropracty!



Richard.

[martintyler]

A good top gear tonight.. i liked the GT/Zonda/430 piece, awesome bridge too.

[BLONDIE]

loved the show last night, one of the best. loved the GT it looked and sounded brilliant :clap: when my six numbers do come up, then the biggest hassle would be, to i but the GT, or the F440 or the DB9 :?~:-?~:???: and yes Clarkson liked the focus ST images/smiley_icons/censored.gif £18K - £20K is good value. :thumbup: loved the orange colour, :thumbup:

[juboy]

awesome bridge too.




Absolutely. I would love to drive across that one day.



The Zonda didn't work well in orange for me, although the sequence when they were trying to get out of the Paris carpark was hilarious.



Looks like the Focus ST will be the hot hatch to beat until the Civic Type R-R arrives.

[martintyler]

it did look like a particularly bad car park exit, once the zonda was on the flat the front didnt actually look that low

[Madge]

Isn't that the bridge at the end of Taxi (when it was under construction) :?~:-?~:???:

[juboy]

Clarkson's going to be the Friday guest on Colin &amp; Edith's show this week... they're talking about trying to get him to reveal who the Stig is (although I bet he won't).

[Uncle Eric]

Clarkson's going to be the Friday guest on Colin &amp; Edith's show this week... they're talking about trying to get him to reveal who the Stig is (although I bet he won't).


Wouldn't it be funny if it was this bloke :lol:



http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=getfile&amp;id=5244

[BLONDIE]

Bloody hell Ms McArthur can drive :o~:-o~:eek: best lap time ever, well done :thumbup:

[Madge]

Bloody hell Ms McArthur can drive :o~:-o~:eek: best lap time ever, well done :thumbup:


What was Damon Hill's lap time? IIRC his is the real time to beat.

[Madge]

<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText">BLONDIE wrote on Mon, 05 December 2005 08:59</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">
Bloody hell Ms McArthur can drive :o~:-o~:eek: best lap time ever, well done :thumbup:


What was Damon Hill's lap time? IIRC his is the real time to beat.


1:46.3 to be exact, so she's not far off, no wonder she wanted another lap! :o~:-o~:eek:

[shodan]

And she seemed like a real nice girl too! :bow:

[Diablo666]

Is she a carpet muncher?

[BLONDIE]

Is she a carpet muncher?




:lol: :lol: no deck muncher, she's never on dry land :lol: :lol:

[juboy]

deck muncher






What a difference one vowel makes.

[donjohn]

And a great tribute to Richard Burns whose death was criminally neglected by the news programmes...



John

[juboy]

Yes, they did do that well and very respectfully I thought.

[Bomb_Squad]

Come on then - car gurus, what did you think of the Veyron?





Adz

[martintyler]

I thought that VW were too scared to let them put it round their test track :)~:-)~:smile:



It may have 1000bhp, but it weighs 2 tons, so 'only' has the same power/weight ratio as the Zonda F - i know which would win on that track.



On a longer track it might be different though.

[Bomb_Squad]

I thought that VW were too scared to let them put it round their test track :)~:-)~:smile:



It may have 1000bhp, but it weighs 2 tons, so 'only' has the same power/weight ratio as the Zonda F - i know which would win on that track.



On a longer track it might be different though.






Bearing in mind i know yank all about motors, i do like that Zonda F - wasn't overly keen on the Veyrons looks, but sounded nice ( I still like the noise of the McLaren/Merc SLR the best).

Didn't know VW were behind it :?~:-?~:???:



Did you see Fifth gear mate - they woted the Boxster as car of the year - so you've been redeemed :D~:-D~:grin:





Adz

[martintyler]

Of course I saw fifth gear, but didnt want to be the one to bring it up, thanks ;)~;-)~:wink:



VW own Bugatti.

[Bomb_Squad]

Of course I saw fifth gear, but didnt want to be the one to bring it up, thanks ;)~;-)~:wink:






I thought you'd have been crowing about that one mate.



I did like that Lamborghini Gallardo SE they had on, great looking motor.





Adz

[Bomb_Squad]

http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=getfile&amp;id=5316

[Uncle Eric]

Did you see Fifth gear mate - they woted the Boxster as car of the year - so you've been redeemed :D~:-D~:grin:





Adz




Wasn't car of the year a pink Honda S2000 or something :?~:-?~:???:

Or am I missing something?



Whoops, just remembered, they were the busy beavers voting for themselves :D~:-D~:grin: