Bi- Amping , How To ? ?

[Montana]

Hi,

I have resisted this question for to long now, but can any of you (VERY knowledgeble :bow: ) people help me answer the above question.

At the moment I have a Pioneer 2011 amp, B&W 602s3 mains, MS 903c centre, paradigm pdr-8 sub(very old version,not current spec), and MS903r rears x2, and a VERY old Sony widescreen crt tv. I need to know what kind of kit I need, and especially how to wire the speakers, as I already have bi-wired the mains, my aim is to have better 2 channel stereo, as both me and the wife say direct mode on the Pio amp is better, but not great.We listened to the B&W's with a bi-amped system, and thats the reason we bought them, cause they sounded great for both music and movies.

I already have a DVD player, VHS, CD player(not good :( but that's another forum and topic), Sky+.So I have no need to buy any of that kit, other than what you would recommend.

Any and all help would be most helpful, especially anything with pictures because A, I am not an expert on all things AV, and B, a picture paints a thousand words. :thumbup:





Andy

[magking]

A litle hard to understand what your after, but I'll give it a shot.



Biamping means using separate amplifiers for the bass/mid. and treble elements on your speakers.



Biamping with you current amplifier will not give you any more power so that is really no point. If you want more power you have to add an poweramp (or two :)~:-)~:smile: )

Then you'll use the pre-out on your av-amp to connect the poweramp. Then connect the power amp to you speakers.

If you buy a 2ch power amp you'll have to use the front speaker out on the av-amp aswell, but this might create problems with balance as the power will be different. (This is where I need help from the other members as I have no experience with poweramps at all)



Will this give better stereo sound? Probably, but that depends on the CD player, av-amp, power-amp, cables, etc.



Hope this helped at least a little :roll:



Maybe a new CD-player would be a better upgrade?

[Montana]

Sorry, what I meant was that I heard that AV amps are not very musical, and would like better 2 channel stereo for our CD's.

I have heard that bi-amping gives you a LOT better sound than an av amp does, hence the question.I would presume that obviously you attach the cd player to the new( if I can afford a nice one) intergrated amp, but I DON'T know how the wiring for the speakers is concerned, but I could be totally wrong , so I hoping some of you can help me out :bow:

Many thanks





Andy

[magking]

Then bi-amping will not help.

You'll nedd a new preamp (integrated will also do) aswell.



If you add a integrated stereo-amp you just connect the pre out from the surround amp to one of the inputs on the integrated amp. When you listen to a surround track you the choose that input. But the volume have to be adjusted with an SPL meter, then you have to set the volume on the stereo-amp to that volume everytime you listen to a surround track. Some stereo amps has a poweramp "bypass" that makes this easier, but the only ones I know are some expensive Krells.

Not a very good explonation, I know :?~:-?~:???:



Have a look at this (http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=2021&start=0&rid=77&S=132eb89d3 33634281b1563316a6334d9) thread for more info.

[juboy]

The 2011 does actually allow you to use the unused rear centre amplification channels to bi-amp the front L/R channels if you so wish. In theory it should drive those speakers better and result in a slightly improved overall sound. I've not tried it myself but several magazine reviews of the 2011 have stated that it does have a noticeable, positive, benefit. The 2011 manual is fairly clear in explaining how to do it.



As magking says though, if you really want to improve things, you need to invest in additional hardware (probably power amps in this case).

[Hotblack Desiato]

Bi-amping the Pioneer does bring small improvements, at least to my ear.

The integrated option would bring bigger improvements, but in an audition i did some time back it wasn't until we got to amps at/around 500UKP that i'd say there was a significant improvement over the Pioneer.

[deckard]

The problem with biamping an integrated AV amp such as the 2011 is that the manufacturers of these products rarely (if ever) produce a matching 5 channel power amp (or even 2 channel)allowing one to power the treble and the other the bass.



Ultimately if you wish to fully biamp you'll need off-board power amps and that will doubtless mean more financial outlay.



At the end of the day though I think it's a good way to go, my fronts and centre are all biamped and the improvements in clarity and power handling are clear to hear.

[Jonas]

To improve the music performance of the 2011 I first added a dedicated CD player, an Arcam CD72 this made the biggest difference. Then I added an Arcam A85 stereo amp to my system (B&W 603 speakers), which also improved matters.



The 2011 uses the A85 to drive the L&Rs is multi channel mode using the processor mode of the A85 (gives you a fixed gain). Then I have the CD player hooked up to the A85 directly using it's pre-amp stage, gives really good results.



I have also since added a P85 power amp to the A85 to bi-amp the B&Ws. This did improve things, but probably the least out of the three upgrades.

[MarkE19]

My setup is almost the same as Jonas.



I upgraded my receiver with the 2 Arcam Alpha 8 amps first (straight to biamping)and then the Arcam CD player after.

Upgrading in the reverse order I noticed more of an improvement with the amps than the CD player. Both did make a large improvement, but I think the 3802 did such a poor job for music that the Arcam amps seemed to just blow it out of the water.

I think you could go either route (get CD or amps first), but as and when the funds are available then get good amp(s) AND CD player.



Mark.