HD Audio Formats

[martintyler]

Could someone give a simple run down of the audio formats used (and proposed to be used) in HD-DVD and Bluray and how the current crop of players handles them please?

[Krobar]

Heres a quick list, the Philips info is difficult to confirm at this stage and I dont know about the PS3 or XBox addon:



DTS Master Audio

Compression: Lossless

Notes: Backward compatible with older DTS equipment only one stream is therefore needed.

Studios Using: Fox (BD) & Canal (HD DVD)

Toshiba HD DVD Players: Pass only core (1.5MBPS) DTS (Upgrade possible but not confirmed)

Panasonic BD Player: Pass only core. Announced a firmware upgrade will be made available next year to decode <7.1 to HDMI and Analogues.

Samsung Player: Pass only core.

Philips Player: Pass only core.



Dolby True HD:

Compression: Lossless

Notes: Very similar to DVD-Audio/MLP, rumoured to compress slightly better than DTS Master.

Studios Using: Warner (HD DVD), Universal (HD DVD), Various Music Releases (HD DVD & BD)

Toshiba HD DVD Players: Yes. 5.1 through Analogues or PCM through HDMI.

Panasonic BD Player: No at Present. Announced a firmware upgrade will be made available next year to decode <=7.1 to HDMI and Analogues.

Samsung Player: No

Philips Player: No



PCM

Compression: None

Studios Using: Sony (BD), Disney/Miramax (BD), Various Music Releases (BD)

Toshiba HD DVD Players: Yes

Panasonic BD Player: Yes

Samsung Player: Yes

Philips Player: Yes



DTS HD

Compression: Lossy <=6MBPS

Notes: Backward compatible with older DTS equipment only one stream is therefore needed. Is sames as normal DTS at higher bit rates.

Studios Using: Canal (HD DVD)

Toshiba HD DVD Players: Pass only core (1.5MBPS) DTS (Upgrade possible but not confirmed)

Panasonic BD Player: Pass only core. Announced a firmware upgrade will be made available next year to decode <=7.1 to HDMI and Analogues.

Samsung Player: Pass only core (1.5MBPS).

Philips Player: Pass only core (1.5MBPS).



Dolby Digital Plus

Compression: Lossy <=6MBPS (3MBPS for BD?)

Notes: More or less Dolby Digital at potentially higher bit rates

Studios Using: All HD DVD except Canal

Toshiba HD DVD Players: 5.1 through Analogues or PCM through HDMI.

Panasonic BD Player: 7.1 through Analogues or PCM through HDMI.

Samsung Player: No

Philips Player: No



DVD Formats:



DTS

Compression: Lossy - 1.5MBPS or 768Kbps

Studios Using: Lions Gate (BD), Universal (HD DVD), Paramount (HD DVD)

Hardware: All will decode.



Dolby Digital

Compression: Lossy - <=640Kbps

Notes: Cannot be used on HD DVD.

Studios Using: All BD Studios.

Hardware: All will decode.



MPEG

Compression: Lossy - <=384Kbps

Notes: AFAIK this can in theory be used on either of the HD formats.

Studios Using: None

Hardware: Panasonic (BD), Toshiba (HD DVD - Euro Models Only), Others?

[martintyler]

Thanks :thumbup:



Dont some Toshiba players have no 5.1 analogue outputs? I think I read on another thread that they can also downmix (if thats the right word) to standard DTS over coax?

[Nic Rhodes]

The new cheap Toshiba in the UK (not released yet) doesn't have analogue outputs. All Toshiba HD DVD players convert all their supported codecs to full bit rate DTS which just about every receiver can utilise.

[martintyler]

Thanks Nic, how much better is that than DTS tracks commonly on DVDs? Is it like an mp3 bitrate thing where most probably wouldnt notice as long as the lower one was still at a decent rate?

[Nic Rhodes]

The DTS encode is at 1500 rate which was used on DTS LD and a handful of early DVDs. Just about all DTS sound tracks on DVDs now are half bit rate at 750. 750 is good, 1500 is great which is why people still talk about DTS LDs even now. To better this you need to go PCM or lossless. Sound wise it is about as good as it gets pre HD DVD.



DVD DD is at 380 and 440 levels. HD DVD 'starts' at 640 for DD+ (same as DD for all intents when at the same rate) and goes up from there. The encode to DTS 1500 levels is transparent to most codecs to the '1500 bit rate' (primarily DTS and DD+) and you only start to loose when you go to TrueHD which is lossless. It is a great system and really allows legacy kit like ours to get the most of the new machine (BD please take note).



Out of interest 2 SHARCs are needed just for this DTS encode, twice the power of the Tag AV32R DP!



Good post Krobar.

[Dimmy]

Martin,



I don't know if you have it to hand, but House Of Flying Daggers R2 has full bit rate DTS soundtrack, as does Enemy At The Gates.



If you want to hear what full bit rate DTS can do then try either of these, they sound incredible.

[martintyler]

Thanks Nic.



Dimmy, I do have them I think, might be a different region though, thanks.



Now to decide whether to get the E1 or the XE1 :shrug:

[Krobar]

I though I'd add a bit of info I heard last night, FilmMixer on AVS (An insider and very knowledgable in the past) pointed out that all the Toshibas should be able to decode 7.1 from DD+ and DD TrueHD for output over HDMI (Analogue may be possible with a serious software tweak but looks unlikely). The first 7.1 title is apparently Ghost in the Shell 2 which sould be announced soon.