Tag - TMREQ anyone?

[martintyler]

Anyone had a chance to experience TMREQ (Tag McLaren Room EQualisation) ?



I have read a few positive reviews of the AV192 or AV32 DP by users on the tag forum, but they generally are saying 'it sounds much better.. i havent even tried TMREQ yet!'



My friend with a pioneer AX10 (which has its own auto-equaliser thing) says you can turn it on and off easily, and it clearly makes a big difference. Now the Tag has a much more advanced piece of software - but you have to go all the way (upgrade and lengthy setup) before you find out the benefits - there's no automatic setup like the AX10.



The benefits that can be had from it depend on how bad your room is in the first place - I tried the ETF software (the one Tag recommend) to measure my room. However, in the short time i was playing around with it, either i got something wrong, or you have to play the test tones at a rediculously high volume.



I think I will try some of Erics Auralex panels first, a bit easier to try out i think :)~:-)~:smile:

[Uncle Eric]

Martin,

I've not heard Tag Tamreq but I'm sure it will be effective. Nic might have heard this and hopefully will post a few words.



I have a lot more to say about EQ, it's effects (both positive and negative), and alternatives but I've decided to be less controversial in my old age ;)~;-)~:wink:

[Nic Rhodes]

I don't have much TMREQ exoerience but I have now heard it. It is VERY good but it is not the bee all and end all. There is still much that can be done elsewhere. It does however offer a VERY substantial jump in quality but it ain't easy (get your dealer...). The new DS AV32R is also quite a jump in quality from my plain Jane AV32R, It is just clearer and faster. I must admit to being surprized. Unfortunately i don't have the funds at the moment, too many other things happening. :(

[CSkates]

I upgraded my AV32R to dual SHARC over two months ago and so have had quite a bit of time to play around with TMREQ and ETF. My AV32R was a 2000 model, so is 5.1, had original DACs and no bypass. I had it upgraded with the new DACs and dual SHARC, the main reason was TMREQ and more flexable crossovers - with a 5.1 AV32R I can't make use of THX Ultra 2.



Configuring TMREQ using ETF is not difficult, but it is time consuming - I'd allow for at least a day to configure all the channels, more if you're doing it for the first time. I'd advise reading through the case study and other documents on Tag's site before starting. Each filter, all the filters on a channel, or all channels can be enabled or disabled to allow you to A/B changes that you have made.



To cut to the chase, after using TMREQ to tame resonances and peaks the bass performance in my room has improved significantly in both music and films. Any boom in the bass is now flattened out, and the transition from the speakers to sub is now smoother. Other improvements that I've noticed is that the sub is now harder to localise, and the rears are closer in tonal match to the fronts - even though they are vastly different. I'll see if I have any before and after graphs which I can post on this thread later.



Can't think of any major problems, there are a couple of usability issues that could be tidied up (eg. not being able to enter a -ve gain directly, but having to use the down button). The number of filters could be greater, 8 filters per channel seems like a lot but I have had to compromise on some filters in my setup. An auto setup would be convenient, but perhaps not as accurate as doing it manually.



My system:

Tag AV32R-DP 5.1

Tag 100x5R

Linn Espek L/R (60Hz xover)

Linn Ekwal C (80Hz xover)

JBL CM52 rears (80Hz xover)

Paradigm Servo-15 sub



Room is approx 22x10 feet, with a 6x5ft storage space along one wall, and a open doorway along the other. Room is pretty heavily furnished, but with no special acoustic treatments.



ETF by itself is a useful tool, speaker (and furniture) positioning can make a large difference to frequency response and resonances and it allows you to quickly see the differences. It also shows up how limited the 1/3 octave sub graphs that some people use can be, the resolution isn't high enough to identify individual peaks and resonances.



martin> What sort of microphone or SPL meter are you using for ETF? It sounds like the sensitivity is too low. On my SPL meter the range setting adjusts the sensitivity of it's line output.

[martintyler]

Thanks for the information. I was only using a cheap PC microphone when i tried it out - I realised that wouldnt be great, but didnt cross my mind that was the problem with the levels.



Will have to get hold of an SPL meter.

[CSkates]

Here's the before, after and target curves for my sub.

[CSkates]

...and the before, after and target curves for the left front.



As you can see, I have a large bass hole from about 100-140Hz. This is caused by the room and no amount of positioning helps :(

[ReTrO]

Looks good.



Sound better?

[Steve.EX]

ReTro.



I have been mulling this over.

Having now played with TMREQ on all channels the "is it better" question is never far from my mind.

As stated above it's simply more homogenous throughout the soundfield i feel rather than "increase in quality"

For me at least the clear "Night And Day" stare you in the face improvements come from the sub channel (so far at least) re-eq.

Although these alterations can be (there-abouts) obtained for far less investment than TMREQ (BFD?) although it is not IMO nearly as nice and somewhat compromised by comparison to TMREQ you could argue that any improvement is better than no improvement.



Steve.

[Uncle Eric]

Well said Steve.

I've been saying for a long time now what you've just confirmed. That is, the main improvements will be in the lower frequency areas which obviously interact with a given room more prominently.



Having taken some figures down previously, I've almost completed the full Auralex treatments in my room and will post some before and after measurements together with pictures very soon.



Already, the improvments are brilliant and as an added bonus looks great as well. Maybe not the sort of thing ones other half would accept in 'her' living room but IMO is a definate must for dedicated rooms.

[ReTrO]

I'd imagine the EQ would bring a sense of better control to the sound, maybe not more detail but less 'noise'.



I'll be EQing the sub/s that Taz and myself have made when my BFD arrives with him.



Looking forward to doing that.