Pioneer VSX-D2011 / Rotel RSP1066 - RMB1075

[GP-TT]

I'm in the process of deciding on a complete audio system to complement a 50" plasma screen that I will also buy.



I've been sampling a variety of receivers and have listened to both pre-power amp combinations and one box solutions.



I have narrowed down my choices to the two above options. However the price difference is quite a big one and as far as configuration and capabilities is concern, it seems to me that the Pioneer is not lagging the Rotel combination. Also sound and power wise the Pioneer seems fine to me.



Apart from the money issue (which is always an important consideration of course), can someone please tell me what more, in their opinion, can the Rotel option offer?



Thanks :)~:-)~:smile:

[ricdiggle]

I have a Rotel RMB 1075 Amp and love it to bits, for the money, it is truely fantastic.



I tried a Rotel RSP1066 with it before biting the bullet and going for a Tag Av32r. I was very unimpressed by it for use with music. I tried a £200 Rotel Stereo Pre-amp along side it and frankly, it blew the 1066 out of the water.

The 1066 was good with DVD sources though and is very well specced.



Not heard the Pioneer at all, and I don't mean to offend any 1066 owners.



Richard

[GP-TT]

Thanks for that.



I have also heard the Tag/Rotel combination and bar from going on a Tag pre & power amp combo, it was the best I heard. However it's the "biting the bullet" that I'm toying at the moment, especially since I'm looking to buy the whole "AV package" including a 50" plasma and the overall budget can easily get out of hand.

[ricdiggle]

AV32r seems like a lot of money but, trust me, it's worth every penny. I find out something new that it can do on a regular basis. Only things it's lacking are a headphone socket and a phono stage.

Otherwise, it's perfect.



Never tried one, but from what I've heard, their amp can be beaten comprehensively by other makes. Parrasound / bryston for example.



Richard

[juboy]

I have the Pioneer and really love it. It replaced a Denon 2802 which was no duffer but the 2011 takes things to a new level.



You're basically getting a lower powered AX10 - nearly £3k's worth of amp - for £750 (at online prices).



A superb piece of kit. Looks the business too :)~:-)~:smile:

[sounddog]

Not heard the Pioneer at all, and I don't mean to offend any 1066 owners.


You havn't offended any RSP1066 owners ... well you havn't offended me anyway ... we all have our opinions and I hope I won't offend you by disagreeing :)~:-)~:smile:



My experience has been that the RSP1066 was the equal of the RA1060 (when used as a pre-amp with same power amps). The RA1060 was (judged by us) to be better than the RA-02, NAD C370 and Tag 60i (when used with B&W 602 speakers)



I noticed that GP-TT meantioned that he'd "heard the Tag/Rotel combination and bar from going on a Tag pre & power amp combo, it was the best I heard" ... many people consider the RMB1075 to be superior to the TAG 5ch 100w power amp (though of course at the end of the day it's down to what you prefer listening to).



Vikki

[DAVEDEO]

Nobody has answered the original question, i.e. is it value for money to spend substantially more money on the Rotel combo compared to the Pioneer? and what do you get for that money?



Instead we have drifted to "Buy a Tag, you won't regret it" and "Rotel power amps are/are not better than Tag" discussion.



The original poster is having difficulty (please correct me if I am wrong) justifying the cost of a Rotel 1066/1075 let alone a Tag AV32.



Personally I think the Rotel will give you a level of upgradability which may be unimportant to you. The Pioneer appears to have most bases covered.



Dave

[DAVEDEO]

GP-TT



Which DVD player do you plan to buy?



Dave

[sounddog]

Davedo ... you are of course right.



GP-TT ... as far as sound quality is concerned ... (IMO) the one are where the Rotel beats (most) integrated AV amps is in the quality of music through it - with the note that I've never compared it to the Pioneer ... RicDiggle feels differently about this hence my original post (I'm not saying he's wrong ... just my opinion / experience has led me to believe otherwise). Having said that - for the cost of the RSP1066 + RMB1075 combo - which is only 5ch not 7ch like the Pioneer - you could purchase the Pioneer 2011 and have enough for a good stereo amp if music is important to you.



Now where the Rotel does win out head and sholders above is in the fact that IF you were considering getting a better processor later, you will already have purchased the power amps necessary.



Not sure if you've listened to it an decided against it ... but as you're going for a plasma, the Denon 3803 has a few facilities that may be of use to you - the global delay and upconverting of signals specifically - though the 2011 of course has the automatic setup.



Vikki

[GP-TT]

Guys, thanks a lot or all the inputs so far...



DAVEDEO...your way of thinking is on similar lines to mine.. i.e. this is my first serious venture into the AV world, and although I wouldn't like to compromise a lot on the system, I don't really want to blow my budget and I also have to be realistic in its use. What I have found, especially if you visit specialty shops, is that you are kind of "sucked in" (mostly in a good manner) in the world of the people that work there, who are all enthusiastic about the products and have their personal preferences...The best line I have heard from one of these guys when I appeared sufficiently confused was ..."relax, buying a system if predominately supposed to be fun".

As for you question the DVD I'm thinking is the Arcam DV89. I have heard the FJ27, but it's too expensive and the DV88+, which I liked also. The fact that the DV89 is coming out offering DVD-A as well, I think is worth the extra £200 or so pounds. I listed to the Pioneer 756i, but wasn't impressed.

Finally since I'm quite novice in this area, can you pls tell me what do you mean exactly about "upgradeability" of the Rotel combo, that the Pioneer cannot give me?



Sounddog...I haven't actually heard the Denon, will try to see if I can get hold of one at a shop...I have looked at the specifications though and it seemed to me that the Pioneer offered a better choice (mind you though I don't know about performance). Also what do you mean when you refer to "global delay" & "upconverting" :?~:-?~:???: (novice aspect of my enquiries)

[DAVEDEO]

Hi GP-TT



The guys who work in specialist AV Shops and to a lesser extent people on forums like these do suck you in. I am in a similar position to you where I have settled on a 50" Plasma because that is what I wanted. For an average person the picture is the most important thing.



Sound is important too but spending £6K+ on TAG/MERIDIAN etc imho that is diminishing returns compared to say a decent Pioneer or Denon integrated amplifier.



Dave

[Hotblack Desiato]

Finally since I'm quite novice in this area, can you pls tell me what do you mean exactly about "upgradeability" of the Rotel combo, that the Pioneer cannot give me?






You can add processors or power amps to the Pioneer also. But the power amps in the 2011 probably wouldn't show the benefits of a processor upgrade as well as the Rotel power amp. Moreover, you've got a processor you can sell on, going the Rotel route, which you haven't with a 2011.






Also what do you mean when you refer to "global delay" & "upconverting" :?~:-?~:???: (novice aspect of my enquiries)






The 3803s delay...can be used to overcome audio/visual sync problems (search on lipsync will explain more), and it can upconvert non-component video(composite/s-vid/rgg) to component output, which your plasma will enjoy.

[GP-TT]

Thanks for the explanation...on the upconvert issue, would a video processor (since I'm thinking of buying one - IScan) not do the job, or am I talking nonsense?

[Hotblack Desiato]

Thanks for the explanation...on the upconvert issue, would a video processor (since I'm thinking of buying one - IScan) not do the job, or am I talking nonsense?




On the proviso that i am probably talking nonsense... but i thought the Iscan(ultra) needed to be fed component. Probably better to check in the TV/Plasma forum where someone really knows what they're on about...unlike me...or wait for someone to correct this post.

[savage]

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Thanks for the explanation...on the upconvert issue, would a video processor (since I'm thinking of buying one - IScan) not do the job, or am I talking nonsense?







On the proviso that i am probably talking nonsense... but i thought the Iscan(ultra) needed to be fed component. Probably better to check in the TV/Plasma forum where someone really knows what they're on about...unlike me...or wait for someone to correct this post.




The iScan Ultra can take 2 composite 2 SVideo and 2 Component inputs plus a straight through 15pin DSub. Out puts RGB DSub, Component and a digital DVI connector. Therefore upconverting the signal but as it is a video processor it will also improve the picture. :D~:-D~:grin:



Upconverting is just taking a standard of video input ie svideo and converting it into differant standard ie component output but not improving the signal I belive. :(



If you do go for the iScan Ultra you should buy pass the AMP completly. Less connections to degrade the signal. If you get the Pioneer 50MXE you will also be able to take DVI signal into the plasma which is meant to be better. (No digital to analouge convertion 8)~8-)~:cool: )



Sav :)~:-)~:smile:

[GP-TT]

Hi savage...thanks for the info. Do you know whehter the Pioneer is the only plasma that would allow me to do that, or does the Panasonic/Fujitsu have the same facility?

[savage]

The Fujitsu's and Panasonics are a a bit different in that the same screen is sold in so many differant model numbers. THese model numbers I think mainly reflect the type of inputs that they provide.



From my research if you have one type of input you will be left without another.



I'm a user not a dealer so Joe would know more about what combinations are possible with the Fujitsu and the Panasonic.



Sorry I can not help more - I did have a quick look at their web sites but nither of them have a full spec sheet (very poor :x~:-x~:mad: :banghead: ) - unlike the pioneer's web site that does. :D~:-D~:grin:



Sav :)~:-)~:smile:

[Hotblack Desiato]

The iScan Ultra can take 2 composite 2 SVideo and 2 Component inputs plus a straight through 15pin DSub.






Well i did say i was talking nonsense ;)~;-)~:wink: so thanks for putting me right!